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IRC logs for #guix, 2017-03-24 (GMT)

2017-03-23
2017-03-25
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[01:05:55]<nckx>ACTION just compiled their first bcachefs kernel today. Bye-bye btrfs.
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[07:46:21]<ryanwatkins>Guys, am I correct in the assumption that one cannot easily change a config for dwm in Guix due to the functional packaging system? I am a little bit unsure on how one may do this
[07:47:06]<buenouanq>I think that fortunately you are very wrong.
[07:47:20]<ryanwatkins>buenouanq: oh sweet
[07:47:27]<buenouanq>I've never used dwm though.
[07:47:49]<ryanwatkins>buenouanq: essentially the idea is that one should edit a config.h and make clean install to see changes
[07:48:22]<buenouanq>hmmm
[07:48:49]<buenouanq>that's far different for anything I'm used to, so maybe I'm wrong
[07:49:11]<buenouanq>you really have to recompile everytime you want to change your wm?
[07:49:31]<buenouanq>that sounds like a terrible design choice
[07:49:42]<buenouanq>why would they do that?
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[07:51:54]<buenouanq>if that's really the case, it still shouldn't be a big issue, you'll just have to learn to roll your own local guix package
[07:58:29]<ryanwatkins>'dwm is customized through editing its source code, which makes it extremely fast
[07:58:29]<ryanwatkins>and secure - it does not process any input data which isn’t known at compile time,
[07:58:29]<ryanwatkins>except window titles and status text read from the root window’s name', I agree that I may have to specify a local guix package, I guess I just change the tarball location in my local spec?
[07:58:32]<ryanwatkins>
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[08:19:55]<efraim>Or have a patch file that you throw into the source field
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[08:45:42]<buenouanq>or be a hero and take up the much need challenge of making guile-wm a fully fledged usable window manager
[08:46:55]<ryanwatkins>buenouanq: this is my long term goal, I am just waiting for when I know guile good enough and know how to debug well enough :D
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[08:49:15]<buenouanq>ryanwatkins: the best way to learn a new language, is to dive head first into a complicated project requiring it :3
[08:51:02]<ryanwatkins>buenouanq: I used to do this but I found that my biggest time was wasted driving my head into problems that were really just me missing a concept though I do agree with you, I have it installed and used it periodically but it would crash too often which I found seemed to be some problem with handling x11 errors
[08:51:16]<ryanwatkins>and well, I don'k know anything about xcb so :D
[08:52:42]<buenouanq>make it so it uses wayland and we can abandon X for good
[08:53:18]<ryanwatkins>buenouanq: that's what I thought about doing, I agree although I still think X is quite nice and fast, albeit old
[08:54:47]<ryanwatkins>buenouanq: if I could stabilise it, I would actively develop on it but my wm would just crash too often and the stack trace really wasn't pointing to much, then i was spending time trying to figure out how to even deploy a fix and stuff, in which case I need to know more about guix and stuff..
[08:55:32]<ryanwatkins>buenouanq: so in my head, I reconciled that I should fully understand guix, guile and unix (x11/wayland) a bit more first :P
[08:55:56]<ryanwatkins>buenouanq: ofcourse, I want guile-wm to bring my dreams of a lisp machine closer haha
[08:57:37]<buenouanq>I wish I had the time, skills/knowledge, or wherewithal to help you in this.
[08:57:56]<buenouanq>someday ( ._.)
[08:58:42]<ryanwatkins>buenouanq: :-)
[08:59:10]<slyfox>looking at 'define-public dwm' in guix source it does not seem to provide a mechanism to patch DWM other than applying a patch of a package yourself
[09:01:59]<buenouanq>if this is how dwm is always configured, it should be made simple for guix or have a guide
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[09:02:09]<buenouanq>document whatever you do ryanwatkins
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[09:25:09]<ryanwatkins>buenouanq: will do
[09:25:33]<ryanwatkins>buenouanq: sorry, my system shut off and I lost my logs :(, I am not sure if there is a way for ERC on emacs to somehow keep IRC history
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[09:33:21]<civodul>Hello Guix!
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[09:39:05]<thomasd>hello!
[09:39:37]<ryanwatkins>Hello civodul
[09:41:37]<efraim>Hi!
[09:41:41]<thomasd>libreoffice on core-updates fails because it's not compatible with icu4c 58. No reason not to try to upgrade to (latest) libreoffice 5.3 (where this should be fixed), right?
[09:42:10]<efraim>thomasd: go ahead, it has such a long build time is why we don't touch it too often
[09:42:25]<thomasd>efraim: yeah, tell me about it :)
[09:42:35]<efraim>The secret is to bump the libreoffice specific dependencies only just enough to get it to build
[09:42:57]<efraim>Or to match the versions of the dependencies they mirror on their site
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[09:44:39]<efraim>I got vigra to build first attempt on aarch64, not sure why it fails so often on the other architectures
[09:44:43]<thomasd>efraim: ok, I'll give it a try. I have 8 cores so that's something... (the alternative is to backport a patch from their repository )
[09:45:03]<efraim>don't we have it set for not parallel build?
[09:45:30]<thomasd>ah yes, I see now :)
[09:46:04]<efraim>Icecat also built, 10 hours including the extremely slow patching process
[09:46:08]<thomasd>so far I'm still building dependencies (currrently at... vigra)
[09:46:44]<efraim>I bumped samba locally, just have to look up the CVEs for the commit message
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[09:48:24]<efraim>Looks like just cve-2017-2619
[09:48:31]<efraim>I can push it once I get home
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[09:50:34]<slyfox>why guix does not share the same source tarballs with the same checksums? I have binutils-2.27.tar.xz downloaded 4 times: http://dpaste.com/09BV7M1.txt
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[10:04:30]<civodul>slyfox: when applying patches (the 'patches' field in 'origin'), Guix creates a new .tar.xz
[10:04:50]<civodul>that's why you're seeing several of them: the upstream one, and several differently-patched ones
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[10:38:03]<rekado_>ryanwatkins: I’m using ZNC on a server to keep my IRC history.
[10:38:03]<rekado_>ryanwatkins: ERC would connect to ZNC on my server instead of freenode.
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[11:01:55]<rekado_>another quick blog post on using R’s built-in package management with Guix: https://elephly.net/posts/2017-03-24-r-with-guix.html
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[11:14:23]<thomasd>the libreoffice 5.1.6.3 rabbit hole goes deep :)
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[11:40:44]<catonano>how am I supposed to write the url of a tarball that is on sourceforge ?
[11:41:25]<catonano>in the terminal I read "ffollowing rredirection to ..."
[11:41:28]<catonano> times
[11:41:39]<catonano>and then the hash results to be wrong
[11:41:51]<catonano>I fix it and theh flllowing time it's wrong again
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[11:47:43]<nee```>catonano: guix has some kind of special mirror schema for sourceforge urls. run `guix edit pinball` to see an example.
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[11:51:02]<catonano>nee```: thank you, I copied that schema, but the resilts doesn't change
[11:51:19]<catonano>every time it turns out that it should have a diferent hash
[11:51:37]<catonano>the package is libxsl
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[12:03:14]<nee```>catonano: I'm also getting 404 errors for the mirror url. The http url on their sourceforge page works for me and keeps the same hash. But I didn't update guix in some time.
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[12:05:24]<catonano>nee```: could you paste their sourceforge page url, please ? So I try it
[12:05:47]<catonano>I'm not sure I understand the diference between the mirror url and the sourceforge page url
[12:06:48]<catonano>I wrote on the help mailing list anyway
[12:06:56]<nee```>I just ran `guix download http://downloads.sourceforge.net/libxls/libxls-0.2.0.tar.gz` two times and got the same hash.
[12:07:20]<catonano>ah but in thhe meantime the library reached version 1.4.0
[12:07:25]<catonano>so I understand
[12:07:41]<catonano>I have to go now, I'll be back soon !
[12:07:44]<catonano>Thank you !
[12:08:54]<nee```>ah they still link the old version on their web page http://libxls.sourceforge.net/.
[12:11:56]<nee```>catonano: This url works for me: mirror://sourceforge/libxls/libxls-1.4.0.zip
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[12:26:49]<catonano>nee```: uhmm... no. The hash keeps changing :-/
[12:26:54]<catonano>oh well...
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[12:30:29]<nee```>catonano: I always get the same hash for that url, namely /gnu/store/al3rrwai9cz9zcx93gdpb0yxp65732rn-libxls-1.4.0.zip
[12:30:29]<nee```>1g8ds7wbhsa4hdcn77xc2c0l3vvz5bx2hx9ng9c9n7aii92ymfnk
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[13:14:47]<thomasd>ACTION is building libreoffice 5.3.1.2
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[13:25:39]<ng0>I think the rxvt-unicode patch didn't work out, after reboot the name in at least one window manager is again "rxvt-unicode" for both.
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[13:34:57]<ng0>expected result when you install rxvt-unicode should be that you get two unique entries in menus for rxvt-unicode. Actual result after a reboot is two same entries (which call different, unique binaries). I've only added " (client)" to the urxvtc entry, assuming that this would work for .desktop files. do I have to escape the parens?
[13:35:03]<quiliro>how can i establish guix to insist indefinitely if there are networking issues?
[13:35:31]<ng0>what do you mean with insist?
[13:35:59]<quiliro>ng0: to persist trying to download what it needs
[13:36:15]<quiliro>until it can do it
[13:36:26]<ng0>do you have an actual error message, or is it just unstable connection?
[13:36:37]<quiliro>or to do other things while the link is re-established
[13:37:13]<quiliro>guix gives error when the network fails for certain time
[13:37:26]<quiliro>i will check the error and report
[13:38:17]<quiliro>but i have a link now!
[13:38:21]<quiliro>i cannot test
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[13:44:33]<civodul>thomasd: you're brave :-)
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[13:51:13]<thomasd>civodul: or just reckless :)
[13:52:38]<civodul>heheh
[13:52:58]<thomasd>semi-urgent question: can I run `guix gc` while a build is in progress, and will it keep the build process' dependencies (I assume I can...? :) )
[13:56:28]<civodul>of course you can!
[13:56:49]<civodul>things currently in use by a build process are GC roots
[13:57:12]<civodul>and things currently in use by some process are GC roots too (see nix/scripts/list-runtime-roots.in)
[14:00:25]<clacke[m]>in my experience this is a bit shaky in Nix. I think the fact that guix creates environment closures when you run ad-hoc packages helps.
[14:00:26]<clacke[m]>I like running heavy programs ad-hoc, so I don't have to delete old generations when I want to reclaim the space
[14:01:10]<clacke[m]>I have .desktop files in ~/.local that run "guix environment ..." to run an app
[14:02:33]<rekado_>I want to make the CRAN importer inspect some source files. May I just unpack the tarball in a temp directory, or are there other ways to inspect a tarball?
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[14:02:39]<ng0>clacke[m]: fascinating
[14:03:25]<rekado_>I need to check for the presence of certain files (this can be done without unpacking) and I need to search for a string in two files if they are available.
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[14:09:43]<civodul>rekado_: the pypi importer does exactly that for requirements.txt and wheels
[14:09:54]<civodul>so i guess it's fine
[14:10:03]<rekado_>ok
[14:16:59]<thomasd>some comments in libreoffice.scm reek of despair :)
[14:18:13]<CharlieBrown>Link? thomasd
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[15:13:32]<clacke[m]>Presenting guix to http://foocafe.org/malmoe/events/1404-decentralised-ethical-technologies in 2h. Wish me luck :-)
[15:14:01]<clacke[m]>I'm trying to find an angle how software freedom and reproducibility, and userops, relates to decentralization.
[15:14:02]<clacke[m]>It's a super short talk though
[15:14:03]<clacke[m]>My talk is planned to 20 mins and so far I've stretched it out to 50 mins, today I'll compress it to 5 mins and add a 5 mins practical demonstration. :-)
[15:15:28]<davexunit>clacke[m]: good luck!
[15:15:44]<jonsger>demonstration is good :)
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[15:20:09]<civodul>clacke[m]: ooh fun, good luck! :-)
[15:20:58]<civodul>we could have announced it on the web page or something
[15:21:22]<civodul>rekado_: BTW, do you have material from BOBKonf? slides, video
[15:22:30]<civodul>moing lfam!
[15:22:34]<lfam>Hello!
[15:22:41]<lfam>How is core-updates doing today?
[15:22:46]<civodul>lfam: i've tried backporting a coreutils patch for the failing test on ARM
[15:22:48]<civodul>to no avail :-/
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[15:23:07]<lfam>Hm
[15:23:11]<civodul>it's a test that check how 'cut' behaves when passed huge ranges
[15:23:15]<rekado_>clacke[m]: nice! I wish you success!
[15:23:35]<rekado_>civodul: I added the BOBKonf slides a while ago to guix-maintenance
[15:24:30]<civodul>awesome, we need to add them to the web site now
[15:24:37]<rekado_>the video is now available: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEuGVhRWTbA
[15:24:40]<civodul>all this is a little bit to manual :-)
[15:24:41]<rekado_>I haven’t watched it yet
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[15:24:45]<civodul>excellent
[15:24:56]<thomasd>clacke[m]: about decentralization: because Guix is so malleable, it makes users much more independent from the distribution (it's super easy to add and/or modify packages etc). So that's another kind of decentralization. (not sure you were asking for ideas, I offer mine anyway :) )
[15:25:00]<sirgazil>Hi!
[15:25:03]<rekado_>it’s was a little more rambling than usual, IIRC
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[15:28:06]<sirgazil>How do I know what names to put on a manifest file? For example, if I use plain guile or mercurial I get "unbound variable"
[15:29:18]<rekado_>sirgazil: these are variable names.
[15:29:30]<rekado_>you can also use “specifications”
[15:29:50]<rekado_>sirgazil: here’s an example: http://guix.mdc-berlin.de/documentation.html#sec-4-2
[15:30:06]<rekado_>a specification is what you would use on the command line.
[15:30:21]<civodul>oh even a guix-web demo, neat (in the BOBKonf talk)
[15:30:41]<rekado_>sirgazil: if you use the names of variables you have to also load the modules that define them.
[15:31:01]<rekado_>sirgazil: I suggest using specifications instead of variable names unless you have special requirements.
[15:31:04]<sirgazil>rekado_: thanks, I'll try specifications.
[15:32:26]<lfam>civodul: The patch you tried to backport, it's "tests: avoid a spurious failure on older debian"?
[15:33:11]<rekado_>ACTION goes afk
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[15:36:46]<civodul>lfam: yep!
[15:36:49]<civodul>had no effect
[15:36:51]<lfam>We may want to backport this coreutils patch as well (not related to ARM): https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/commit/?id=b14be5085cd1a...
[15:37:15]<civodul>for all arches?
[15:37:48]<lfam>Yeah, it's a bug in `date` that breaks converting between time zones: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=851934
[15:41:37]<lfam>If it's practical for me to launch a Debian machine in qemu-system-arm and try to fix it, I'll do it this weekend. But I don't know how fast or slow it will be to emulate the system
[15:44:56]<lfam>Do we know which machine is trying and failing to build coreutils? There's a Novena and a Wandboard, right?
[15:46:19]<civodul>lfam: i tried on redhill, which is a Novena
[15:46:31]<civodul>seems 100% reproducible, but only in the build env; outside the build env the test just passes
[15:46:57]<civodul>i also tried with qemu-arm (the userland thing) with binfmt_misc, but there are too many differences it seems
[15:47:26]<lfam>My relatively naive go-to in cases where it succeeds outside of the build env but fails inside is to compare the results of strace
[15:47:41]<civodul>yes
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[15:47:48]<lfam>Of course it only helps when the difference is at the syscall level
[15:47:52]<civodul>right
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[15:48:02]<civodul>re rebuilding everything, is it reasonable? :-)
[15:48:29]<lfam>I *always* think it's reasonable, but some people demand substitutes ;)
[15:48:43]<civodul>right!
[15:48:47]<lfam>Although for this bug I think we could limit the fix to ARM systems
[15:48:54]<civodul>i mean, if it's not critical, i'd mege core-updates and restart a new core-updates right after
[15:49:08]<civodul>i'd rather have the same bugs on all arches no?
[15:49:25]<lfam>Is it a bug on the other arches? We're not sure yet :)
[15:49:35]<civodul>oh, in that case ok
[15:49:39]<lfam>The Wandboard and Novena ostensibly use the same processor; it could even be at the level
[15:49:48]<lfam>I mean to say, it could be at that level
[15:50:03]<lfam>I don't know, I'm still in the dark :)
[15:50:04]<civodul>ah no it definitely is arch-independent
[15:50:17]<civodul>i mean the 'date' bug
[15:50:21]<lfam>Oh yes, that bug
[15:50:29]<lfam>Well, we released 0.12.0 with a graft or two :)
[15:50:37]<civodul>right
[15:51:51]<lfam>I'm okay rebuilding everything for the date bug if nobody else objects. We should probably try backporting the patch instead of updating to 8.27 to avoid introducing new problems
[15:52:09]<lfam>We'll have another round of whack-a-mole with spurious build failures
[15:52:51]<civodul>yeah that's why i'd rather avoid it, or rather delay it until after the merge
[15:53:12]<lfam>Avoid patching the bug or avoid updating coreutils?
[15:53:24]<civodul>avoid updating coreutils for the 'date' bug
[15:53:30]<lfam>Agreed
[15:53:44]<civodul>i'm saying that as someone who hasn't carefully looked at the bug, tho :-)
[15:54:03]<civodul>i guess i'll change my mind if it hits me ;-)
[15:54:15]<lfam>As somebody who messed something up due to a failure to convert time zones properly, I'd like to fix the bug :)
[15:54:38]<civodul>ok, understood :-)
[15:54:45]<civodul>so i guess that means a graft for now
[15:54:48]<civodul>WDYT?
[15:54:51]<lfam>Sure
[15:54:58]<lfam>And what about the ARM build failure?
[15:55:07]<civodul>well let me investigate a bit more
[15:55:10]<lfam>Okay
[15:55:13]<civodul>at worst, we'll skip the offending test
[15:55:17]<civodul>and report it
[15:55:38]<lfam>We'll find out soon after the merge if the test failure indicates something serious :)
[15:55:58]<civodul>definitely, sounds like the right approach :-)
[15:57:09]<lfam>I'd like to write a short primer on "How to help with core-updates". I think my recent email on the subject did help, but it could be better
[15:57:29]<lfam>I originally found it really difficult to learn the Hydra web interface, and I think it reduces the number of people who pitch in
[15:57:52]<civodul>yeah, that's a good idea
[15:58:06]<civodul>and there's some sort of a psychological barrier i think
[15:58:18]<civodul>i definitely had that years ago when there were major updates in Nixpkgs
[15:58:26]<lfam>So, to graft coreutils we should set (replacement #f) on coreutils-final and coreutils-minimal, right?
[15:58:35]<civodul>yes
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[15:59:25]<lfam>Re: psychological barriers, yes I think it's true.
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[16:11:59]<lfam>civodul: I'm not sure how to set (replacement #f) for coreutils-final
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[16:34:21]<kyamashita>Do we have a dbus update on core-updates pending?
[16:36:13]<kyamashita>Or anywhere for that matter...
[16:37:47]<kyamashita>I'm curious if Guix packages D-Bus with nonce-tcp enabled.
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[18:45:45]<clacke[m]>thomasd: Thanks for your ideas, I didn't read it I'm afraid, but I got something like that across. :-)
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[18:46:59]<clacke[m]>given more time, I would have brought up autonomy for unprivileged users, but I did bring up autonomy from distributions
[18:48:08]<clacke[m]>and the fact that the central build server going away only means you lose pre-built packages, as long as you have guix.git you can reproduce your entire system
[18:49:27]<clacke[m]>it was very successful I think. I got good questions and I got two people (out of ~100) super excited, mainly because they saw the application to their work right away
[18:51:21]<clacke[m]>going to sit down with one of them and get guix on their existing GNU/Linux
[18:51:33]<clacke[m]>tomorrow
[18:53:27]<clacke[m]>what I wanted to get across was the point that it helps UserOps and software distribution by just putting up a repo somewhere, and I think I managed that
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[19:22:27]<amz3>I want to compile a package using guile-2.0
[19:22:34]<amz3>I did guix package -i guile-2.0
[19:22:58]<amz3>I will send a message at guix-help
[19:26:20]<OrangeShark>amz3: you would use guile@2.0
[19:26:46]<OrangeShark>packagename@version
[19:27:15]<amz3>I did: guix environment --ad-hoc guile@2.0
[19:27:31]<amz3>And the configure script of guile-charting fails to find the dev files of guile 2.0
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[19:27:48]<amz3>http://wingolog.org/projects/guile-charting/
[19:30:44]<davexunit>amz3: what do you mean "dev files"?
[19:30:54]<OrangeShark>amz3: maybe you need pkg-config as well?
[19:30:59]<davexunit>you must be missing something from your environment
[19:31:14]<davexunit>guile-charting must need autotools, etc.
[19:31:17]<amz3>http://dpaste.com/2QGKY7W
[19:31:22]<amz3>hmm
[19:31:44]<davexunit>guile-charting is a package so this should work to make a dev env for it: guix environment guile-charting
[19:31:51]<OrangeShark>probably using pkg-config from your distro
[19:32:18]<davexunit>amz3: the environment variable that pkg-config uses isn't configured because you didn't include pkg-config in your environment
[19:32:28]<davexunit>so it has no idea where to find guile's .pc file
[19:32:35]<amz3>sorry
[19:33:36]<davexunit>my recommendation is to describe complete environments with 'guix environment', because otherwise if you try to use tools you already have on $PATH from something else you'll probably end up missing other important env vars
[19:34:32]<amz3>it makes sens
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[19:36:41]<amz3>indeed "guix environment guile-charting" works
[19:36:58]<bavier1>Do we have any way to insert "activation code" into a users profile?
[19:37:41]<bavier1>e.g. for a package that provides bash extensions, but needs some initialization code in .bash_profile or .bashrc
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[19:49:28]<davexunit>bavier1: I don't think so, but it sounds like a good thing to add along with the other profile things we do
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