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IRC logs for #guix, 2016-08-28 (GMT)

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[00:38:38]<lostcoffee>hey guys! I'm trying to dual-boot and so I installed with guix system init --no-grub, hoping that debian's automatic grub configuration would detect guix and add a grub menu entry. However, that's not happening. Should I just make an entry manually?
[00:39:11]<lostcoffee>(also I noticed that the installation didn't make a /boot directory. Is that a problem?)
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[04:59:14]<lostcoffee>after looking around in system.scm, I think that /boot is not created and populated when --no-grub is specified (reference: ), which would explain why os-prober didn't find anything
[05:05:22]<jamesrichardson>I just install guixsd on a box. Wondering if there is NFS or OpenAFS support.
[05:07:26]<jamesrichardson>Otherwise looks very interesting.
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[05:16:23]<jamesrichardson>guess I need to learn scheme.
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[05:31:40]<jamesrichardson>Is there a how to anywhere that describes to dual boot guixsd with another distro (preferably Debian)?
[05:32:14]<jamesrichardson>I would like to be able to share /home and /gnu/store.
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[05:37:39]<jmd>jamesrichardson: I think sharing /gnu/store is not possible
[05:38:40]<jmd>Sharing /home might also be problematic if the two guixes have different localstatedir
[05:40:05]<jamesrichardson>hmm, might just have to keep things completely seperate until I lean more about guix.
[05:41:38]<jamesrichardson>OpenAFS seems not to be packaged yet (I couldn't find anything). Don't see nfs either.
[05:41:56]<jmd>Strangely enough, I'm working on NFS right now.
[05:43:26]<jamesrichardson>I would offer to help (still can I guess). Just learning about guix. I need to learn scheme.
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[06:19:00]<brendyn>I would like to package my first program, praat, but there is an issue. praat's source is simply in a github and there doesn't seem to be a tarball, only binaries, so it seems I need to build from the repo
[06:23:18]<lime_>Installing GUIXSd as a host OS on bare metal
[06:23:33]<lime_>Is that sensible?
[06:24:05]<brendyn>Except I tried it and I couldn't get it to work just yet
[06:24:12]<lime_>Functional for daily use?
[06:24:25]<brendyn>Seems it requires the hard drive to be formatted in a particular way
[06:24:47]<lime_>I can do that
[06:24:52]<brendyn>lime_: I think is not that ready no. It is only ready if you wish to dive in and test it and be willing to have things break
[06:25:25]<brendyn>For example, I believe we don't even have an openssh daemon configuration yet
[06:25:52]<brendyn>Personally I would do it, yes
[06:25:58]<lime_>Oh I'm more than willing to submit bugreports
[06:26:09]<lime_>Even write patches
[06:26:24]<brendyn>Sweet, then get started. I'm still a noob myself
[06:26:55]<lime_>Then we can noob together
[06:27:14]<brendyn>lime_: qemu-system-x86_64 -m 512M -usb -enable-kvm -net nic,vlan=1 -net user,vlan=1 guixsd-usb-install-0.11.0.x86_64-linux
[06:27:43]<lime_>On bare metal
[06:28:24]<lime_>I have a laptop I use to test OSs on
[06:29:00]<brendyn>Then do it!!!
[06:29:04]<brendyn>Go go go!
[06:29:28]<lime_>Well, I'm still 150 miles from home
[06:29:29]<brendyn>use dd to write it to a USB drive
[06:29:52]<lime_>I've done 300 so far today
[06:30:27]<brendyn>Where on Earth are you?
[06:30:34]<lime_>Shetland -> Dundee
[06:30:46]<brendyn>No idea where that is
[06:31:21]<lime_>I was on the northern Isles
[06:31:59]<lime_>15 hour ferry
[06:33:14]<lime_>And I live north east of the lowlands
[06:34:02]<brendyn>Hmm, seems the qemu command still doesn't get me proper network access
[06:34:35]<lime_>-net e100e
[06:35:06]<brendyn>as an additional option?
[06:35:22]<lime_>You need to set a driver to emulate
[06:35:43]<brendyn>invalid parameter
[06:37:04]<lime_>-device TYPE,netdev=NAME
[06:38:48]<lime_>So -device e1000e,netdev=failcake0
[06:39:09]<lime_>Should work
[06:39:32]<brendyn>qemu-system-x86_64: -device e1000e,netdev=failcake0: 'e1000e' is not a valid device model name
[06:40:05]<brendyn>qemu-system-x86_64: -device e1000,netdev=failcake0: Property 'e1000.netdev' can't find value 'failcake0'
[06:40:58]<brendyn>Does failcake need to be my parent os's device?
[06:42:00]<brendyn>wifi card i guess
[06:42:35]<lime_>export $failcake0=wlan0
[06:42:49]<brendyn>linux has been getting crazier these recent years. It used to be wlan0 and eth0, now its wlp4s0 and enp5s0f2
[06:43:18]<lime_>Oh I create symlinks
[06:44:28]<lime_>But I've used *BSD for years where they use the driver name
[06:45:23]<lime_>em0 for the e1000e series
[06:46:01]<brendyn>It seems i need to define the device beforehand
[06:46:01]<lime_>iwm0 for my Intel card
[06:46:15]<lime_>Go on
[06:46:34]<brendyn>netdev is the virtual device in the vm, not my host os's device
[06:46:41]<brendyn>so I need to define it somehow
[06:46:57]<brendyn>"The netdev is the name of a previously defined -netdev. The virtual network device will be associated with this network backend. "
[06:47:06]<brendyn>...or not
[06:47:20]<brendyn>so i need -netdev
[06:47:57]<brendyn>But I link talking to people :/
[06:48:36]<lime_>I know
[06:48:45]<lime_>Me too :)
[06:48:54]<brendyn>*sigh*, I need to reboot since I updated linux
[06:49:10]<brendyn>Actually, I have literally no friends that even use GNU/Linux
[06:49:29]<lime_>Which Linux you use?
[06:50:05]<lime_>I use devuan
[06:50:42]<lime_>Linux-libre except for one driver
[06:51:38]<lime_>I study ethical hacking at university so most of my friends run Linux
[06:52:29]<lime_>I am going to write a driver for this WiFi card when I get GUIXSd up
[06:52:55]<brendyn>I think Stallman is right, if we do not have the stuborness to look at the license agreement and say "no, this is unacceptable", then we will simply fail. As a matter of consistency, if you need one proprietary program, you'll accept more under similar circumstances
[06:53:31]<lime_>I agree with that
[06:53:37]<brendyn>Is it difficult to write a wifi card driver? I've never even learn C before. I have two 3 wifi cards here I can't use
[06:54:14]<lime_>Not hard at all, for basic functionality
[06:54:19]<brendyn>Soon, I am going to go and talk to people in the Education Department and advocate for replacing Windows with Trisquel
[06:55:27]<lime_>My uni uses FOSS for the bootloaders which reflashes windows daily
[06:55:47]<lime_>I don't use uni systems
[06:56:09]<brendyn>reflashes windows???
[06:56:20]<brendyn>The entire system resets its self?
[06:56:57]<lime_>We make malware and botnets
[06:57:12]<brendyn>scuze me?
[06:58:24]<brendyn>Oh, you mean that kind of "hacking"
[06:58:30]<lime_>Maybe a free software society at uni wouldn't go a miss
[06:58:38]<lime_>Grey hat
[06:58:50]<brendyn>ethical hatters
[06:59:20]<lime_>My lecturer is decidedly blackhat
[06:59:32]<brendyn>What does he do?
[07:01:05]<lime_>Shuts down restaurants payment system if bad service
[07:01:19]<lime_>Or just because...
[07:02:05]<brendyn>devuan is fully libre?
[07:02:09]<lime_>Uni has a terribly insecure registry system so he printed of the details
[07:02:25]<lime_>Of every student
[07:02:43]<brendyn>My Uni had lots of usernames and passwords taken
[07:03:17]<lime_>As debian release can be full libre so can devuan
[07:03:34]<brendyn>Sure, just means fsf won't list it. no worries
[07:03:54]<brendyn>Do you agree that Triquel is the best choice for me to recommend in schools?
[07:04:08]<brendyn>I think GuixSD is The Future, but not now of course
[07:04:16]<lime_>There is a fork which is full libre
[07:04:35]<lime_>Which is listed
[07:05:52]<lime_>I think FOSS is the future, not everyone agrees and our job to make it easier
[07:06:21]<lime_>The inconvenience is slowing the movement
[07:07:00]<lime_>I have a high bug tolerance :P
[07:07:46]<brendyn>What is that supposed to mean?
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[07:09:55]<lime_>It means I've spoken to people who would use a FOSS OS if it worked with no effort
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[07:10:17]<brendyn>Yes well, I think that is pathetic
[07:10:36]<lime_>It's the advocates job to reduce effort
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[07:12:03]<brendyn>Also, I think the pronunciation of Guix is silly
[07:12:25]<brendyn>I preferr to say it like gwix
[07:12:52]<lime_>I just say the letters
[07:13:18]<brendyn>This is why we can't beat Bill Gates
[07:13:58]<brendyn>Awkward things that turn people off
[07:14:10]<lime_>I have no interest in competition if I'm honest
[07:14:51]<lime_>I'm interested in technology and I like to be able to see what's breaking
[07:15:26]<brendyn>You should try and break GNUnet
[07:16:34]<lime_>Yes I saw this
[07:16:49]<brendyn>Looks interesting. Hard to understand
[07:17:35]<lime_>I was thinking of implementing a file sync client with it, similar to bittorent sync
[07:18:01]<lime_>Should do for a networking project :P
[07:18:20]<brendyn>That's what I want too but I have no idea
[07:18:42]<brendyn>I want to create a distributed Library to hold all scientific papers and books etc
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[07:26:25]<lime_>There is a thing on tor where you point it a paper and it downloads it through the paygate
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[07:28:47]<lime_>You know how github sucks?
[07:29:33]<lime_>Do you know of a FOSS alternative other than self hosting
[07:30:07]<brendyn>How does github sucks?
[07:31:46]<lime_>Closed source
[07:32:15]<brendyn>I thought this was funny
[07:35:09]<lime_>On the bus back
[07:35:41]<lime_>ETA on the hacking 100 minutes
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[07:45:26]<rekado_>brendyn: you can use git-fetch instead of url-fetch.
[07:45:40]<rekado_>we have lots of packages in Guix that didn’t have a proper release.
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[07:51:54]<brendyn>rekado_: will that always pull the latest git,or will it be static for a particular revision ?
[07:56:10]<rekado_>brendyn: you need to provide a commit hash.
[07:56:30]<rekado_>so it will be only fetching the given version.
[07:57:45]<lime_>Is there a telnet daemon?
[07:58:25]<rekado_>mark_weaver: I’ve just pushed two commits to “gtk-im-modules”, which requires a rebuild of both GTK+ packages. Can we build this separately? It’s for making input methods actually work with all GTK applications.
[07:58:28]<wingo>one day i will try for guixsd
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[08:07:53]<lime_>I guess I could test it on my Zen
[08:08:22]<lime_>*xen server
[08:10:15]<wingo>nixos also has an install procedure for amazon's cloud stuff
[08:10:42]<wingo>somehow managing vm instances is never a problem i have had, but always wanted
[08:10:49]<wingo>i should be happy with the problems i do have ;)
[08:15:03]<lime_>Always strive for better
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[10:50:09]<lime_>how to enable gnome as default on boot?
[10:54:28]<ng0> can someone suggest to me where else I could make changes to enable host < - > vm network like the 'default' with qemu VMs?
[11:02:00]<brendyn>How do I figure out the hash of my package when it is a git revision?
[11:02:28]<ng0>do you have the git revision already saved?
[11:02:59]<ng0>cd .git/; rm -rf .git; cd ..; guix hash -r .git
[11:03:30]<ng0>my irc client is minimal... need to write again
[11:03:47]<ng0>cd $yourrepo.git/; rm -rf .git; cd ..; guix hash -r $yourgitrepo.git
[11:03:58]<brendyn>My Guix is still broken. having trouble fixing it
[11:04:24]<brendyn>I get substitute: warning: failed to install locale: Invalid argument
[11:04:29]<ng0>it is fifo based, so i forget that echo command wants to interpret $ and i need to escape them
[11:08:06]<brendyn>So I should keep .gitignore?
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[11:11:16]<ng0>for svn, you delete the .svn dir
[11:11:45]<ng0>Ithink we need this in the documentation. I had these questions the first times too
[11:12:14]<ng0>and if it's there, it needs to be in a better place
[11:12:53]<ng0>:me afk
[11:12:57]<brendyn>ng0: I'm currently working on a package by reading the manual. It could save me time if you have a quick look
[11:13:06]<ng0>meremeber thisisno mud
[11:13:39]<ng0>i could.. i onlyneed to work on a bug report. can you upload a patch somewhere
[11:14:13]<brendyn>I don't have a patch because I haven't figured out how to work on guix yet, so I just made a .scm file
[11:14:26]<ng0>that's okay
[11:15:47]<brendyn>I ran guix build -f praat.scm; and it says `package' is undefined
[11:16:20]<ng0>revision 1 needs to be revision "1" i think
[11:17:10]<ng0>also you need to define a name field
[11:18:03]<ng0>lint will also complaint about missing home-page, license, description and synopsis :)
[11:18:18]<brendyn>patience my friend
[11:18:43]<brendyn>Maybe I can look at some other packages to steal from
[11:20:09]<ng0>I know, sorry. I just pointed out what I saw. here is a recent one, not commited: you can also grep for "let revision" in gnu/packages of the checkout
[11:20:55]<ng0>actually... there is a mistake in my package I only spotted now.
[11:22:05]<brendyn>I assume there are separate git repos for Guix and Guix packages?
[11:22:30]<ng0>no, it is all the same
[11:23:04]<ng0>weird, the mistake is already fixed locally. maybe mailman is weird
[11:23:52]<ng0>super weird. it is indeed a ";" mailman added
[11:24:24]<ng0>this: (url "";) would be wrong.
[11:24:33]<brendyn>So... where on Earch should I add praat. It is software for linguistics
[11:26:16]<brendyn>Seems your indenting is a little different to mine
[11:26:17]<ng0>gnu/packages/language.scm orgrep for applications you know which are similar
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[11:28:44]<ng0>if there is nothing fitting, you could always create a new module like gnu/packages/linguistics.scm
[11:29:10]<ng0>but as far as I know there should be something already
[11:29:37]<brendyn>Why not just have a file for each package
[11:31:09]<ng0>a quick search for "lingu" gave me result which make me assume this is the first linguistics software aside from what is in language.scm
[11:32:19]<brendyn>Actually, this package isn't even in gentoo
[11:33:15]<brendyn>what is native-inputs vs inputs/
[11:33:47]<ng0>do you come from gentoo? then I could explain in comparison to ebuilds
[11:34:15]<brendyn>Nope, I'm on parabola
[11:34:36]<ng0>though i don`t even know if depend and rdepend behave remotely similar to native-inputs
[11:35:45]<ng0>native-inputs are at build time and are build for the architecture the build host has, inputs are other... i think there were so many threads about that I just put inputs under 'runtime'
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[11:36:29]<ng0>someone else could give a far more complete explanation, this is just for me to distiguish them a bit
[11:37:05]<brendyn>I'm using this as a reference
[11:38:19]<ng0>catonano: I'm moving the tests bug report on today at current guix gnunet-svn, fyi
[11:41:06]<ng0>pkg-config is one of those native-inputs
[11:41:42]<ng0>is there no version number release tarball?
[11:42:09]<ng0>it is okay if there is not, you just have to comment a reason
[11:46:36]<catonano>ng0: thank you.
[11:49:51]<ng0>these are requests and features I should document in my packaging process for secushare.. so they get some use in upstream (guix) documentation at some point. I will try to build with a core dump phase now.
[11:50:24]<catonano>ok, thanks again
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[11:59:59]<ng0>now only to figure out how I enable core dump in guix in the make check phase..
[12:00:48]<ng0>is it as simple as prepending the core dump command before the make?
[12:04:20]<brendyn>so native-inputs are makedepends?
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[12:06:59]<brendyn>and what's the difference between "boost" and ,boost
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[12:24:03]<brendyn>This is is where using lisp makes everything hard... How do I move a file?
[12:24:39]<ng0>what do you mean by moving a file?
[12:24:51]<ng0>sorry i can't help with the other questions
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[12:40:13]<brendyn>ng0: The build process requires cp makefiles/makefile.defs.linux.pulse ./makefile.defs
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[12:41:22]<brendyn>and then I need to run make
[12:41:28]<efraim>From (guix utils) there should be the (copy-file predicate
[12:41:55]<efraim>So you'd need to add a phase probably before 'configure
[12:42:15]<brendyn>Apparently there is no configure phase
[12:42:44]<efraim>Then you can replace the configure phase
[12:43:07]<efraim>I can't help too much now, I'm on my phone and with the kids
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[12:47:56]<brendyn>Some packages use (arguments `(... and others use (arguments '(...
[12:48:36]<davexunit>` is quasiquote, ' is quote
[12:48:53]<davexunit>quote is appropriate when there is nothing to evaluate within the form
[12:49:16]<davexunit>quasiquote is appropriate when there is an expression that needs to be evaluated within using unquote
[12:49:28]<davexunit>the shorthand for unquote is ,
[12:50:05]<brendyn>, isn't used
[12:51:23]<davexunit>using quasiquote without unquoting is equivalent to just using quote
[12:51:47]<davexunit>`(1 2 3) and '(1 2 3) are equivalent lists
[12:52:14]<davexunit>`(1 2 ,(+ 3 4)) and '(1 2 (+ 3 4)) are very different
[12:52:20]<brendyn>I'm having trouble figuring out what to put in (arguments ...)
[12:52:52]<brendyn>To run cp makefiles/makefile.defs.linux.alsa makefile.defs; make
[12:52:54]<davexunit>you're trying to remove the configure phase?
[12:53:03]<davexunit>there's lots of examples of this
[12:53:05]<ng0>okay this wasn't so obvious as i thought.. how would set ulimit -c unlimited before make check? system* did not work... create a bashscript in a phase and execute it?
[12:53:30]<davexunit>ng0: doesn't ulimit require root?
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[12:53:45]<brendyn>ok, well I guess I'll find those examples somhow
[12:53:57]<ng0>great. so i can not fully debug gnunet build....
[12:54:01]<davexunit>brendyn: search for 'modify-phases'
[12:55:30]<davexunit>your arguments field will look something like `(#:phases (modifiy-phases %standard-phases (delete 'configure) (add-before 'make 'copy-makefile (lambda _ ...))))
[12:57:28]<brendyn>Hmm... emacs is indenting in a silly way
[12:57:43]<jmd>brendyn: Define "silly"
[12:58:07]<brendyn> `(#:tests? #f
[12:58:22]<brendyn> #:phases
[12:58:29]<jmd>Ahh yes. I noticed that too.
[12:58:49]<ng0>i really need to debug this.. i know this hasn't been tried before and I can't reproduce the fail on other systems I have, so I welcome suggestions on how to maiplulate whatever is needed to achieve what I want
[12:59:06]<jmd>But I think that is something to discuss on #emacs or #guile and not on #guix.
[12:59:40]<brendyn>Ok. I'm still drowning in the deep end here using emacs
[13:01:13]<davexunit>if you use the guix emacs stuff it will fix those indentation issues
[13:01:41]<brendyn>I'm still figuring out how to install that
[13:01:49]<davexunit>actually, I just use a code snippet
[13:01:54]<davexunit>one sec and I will share
[13:02:39]<davexunit>evaluate that and it should be fixed
[13:04:38]<brendyn>... sort of
[13:05:04]<brendyn> (modify-phases
[13:05:05]<davexunit>mark_weaver wrote this hack quite some time ago
[13:05:06]<brendyn> %standard-phases
[13:05:08]<brendyn> (delete 'configure)
[13:05:40]<davexunit>%standard-phases should be on the same line as modify-phases
[13:06:03]<davexunit>the indentation rule for it specifies that indentation should happen after the first argument
[13:07:08]<davexunit>see .dir-locals.el for that and other indentation rules
[13:07:19]<catonano>ng0: you might want to write on the mailing list about this
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[13:09:33]<ng0>doesn't the guixbuild user in the environment have some kind of .bashrc where I can set this value?
[13:17:03]<ng0>it does not require root... at least I was able as a normal user to execute it
[13:17:57]<ng0>I will look at the sauce for examples on how to activate this in the build
[13:18:12]<davexunit>ng0: sounds like you are trying to overcomplicate things again.
[13:18:31]<davexunit>is the problem that you need a parent process to run ulimit and then spawn a child process?
[13:18:45]<davexunit>because otherwise the ulimit wouldn't take effect?
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[13:19:09]<ng0>the only information I have so far was the comment provided in the link on mantis
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[13:20:07]<davexunit>"The ulimit utility shall set or report the file-size writing limit imposed on files written by the shell and its child processes"
[13:22:00]<ng0>This happens if GNUNET_snprintf() is called with a buffer that is too small. If you enable core dumps, you should get one, and then please obtain the stack trace (gdb test-binary core-file => bt full). That'll help me find what went wrong.
[13:24:06]<davexunit>I wouldn't recommend doing this debugging in a package build
[13:25:09]<ng0>the question then will be, can I reproduce the guixbuilder limitation when I do a user build..
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[13:32:57]<brendyn>/home/b/software/guix/src/gnu/packages/linguistics.scm:52:6: error: invalid field specifier
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[13:39:44]<lostcoffee>jamesrichardson: read the logs, I'm also trying to dual boot debian. I haven't gotten it to boot yet, but was helpful for trying to share my /home
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[13:44:56]<ng0>to me it seems impossible to debug and develop on guixsd like for example on gentoo.. it's just too different
[13:45:14]<brendyn>One package has ("gtk+-2" ,gtk+-2), another has ("gtk" ,gtk+-2). Is that a mistake?
[13:46:23]<davexunit>ng0: I do it all the time.
[13:46:52]<dvc_>brendyn: No it's just bad style ;-)
[13:47:23]<ng0>with developing I mean building gnunet svn checkout like I can do on gentoo, without the use of my build recipe
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[13:47:57]<ng0>it requires rethinking what you know.. it would be *very* good to have a section in the manual on this
[13:48:06]<civodul>Hello Guix!
[13:48:07]<sneek>civodul, you have 1 message.
[13:48:07]<sneek>civodul, janneke says: with latest mcron, last night rottlog rotated /var/log/messages for me
[13:48:19]<davexunit>I build software the usual way frequently
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[13:48:26]<davexunit>'./configure && make', just like normal
[13:48:49]<dvc_>after running guix environment PACKAGENAME?
[13:49:06]<davexunit>usually yes
[13:49:13]<davexunit>or some guix environment command
[13:49:25]<davexunit>which is a hell of a lot easier than tracking down the dependencies on any other distro
[13:49:26]<ng0>I was more refering to... well on gentoo I can add a system group.. in guixsd I am working on a system-service for that
[13:49:42]<ng0>and patching the shebangs.. etc
[13:49:52]<brendyn>Ok this is what I have so far. It's still broken
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[13:49:54]<dvc_>that's what I do too... sometimes it would be nice if you could easily run phases
[13:50:12]<davexunit>phases aren't a first-class thing
[13:50:23]<davexunit>the gnu-build-system has a phases argument
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[13:50:28]<davexunit>other build systems might not
[13:50:32]<davexunit>trivial-build-system is one
[13:51:12]<dvc_>yeah, I'll get back to work =P
[13:51:29]<davexunit>but something like that would be useful sometimes